tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3501444543696395573.post3498832566733402613..comments2023-08-22T04:52:21.984-05:00Comments on An Arrow Through The Air: Literary Villains: Is the Conventional Wisdom Right?David A. Toddhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16825539283421597579noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3501444543696395573.post-86992441049618129882010-12-13T07:43:01.727-06:002010-12-13T07:43:01.727-06:00Concerning the other villains:
Screwtape's &q...Concerning the other villains:<br /><br />Screwtape's "virtue" is his unwittingly telling Christains how to live a better life, how to recognize and resist temptation. Of course, he didn't do that on purpose, so it isn't actually redeeming. Since <i>TSL</i> doesn't feel like a novel (though it is), maybe Screwtape's villainhood is an outlier.<br /><br />I've not read Hamlet and MacBeth enough or recently enough to have an opinion. Shakespear has never been one of my favorites (probably I just spoke sacrilige to a literary man). Nor have I ever seen Psycho, so can't comment on Norman Bates. In this instance, my absenting myself from a lot of modern cultural things is limiting me.<br /><br />Scrooge as a villain is quite a good story. His road to villainhood was failure of his dad to properly parent him. In the end he comes around to the man that was lurking within him. Since Scrooge is the protagonist, I'm not sure he qualifies as the villain, though he certainly is villainous.<br /><br />I suppose, besides Darth Vader, another villain of note is Professor Moriarity. However I've only just begun my reading of Sherlock Holmes, and actually haven't come across him in any of the short stories I've read.David A. Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825539283421597579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3501444543696395573.post-21209721343107710612010-12-13T07:32:51.183-06:002010-12-13T07:32:51.183-06:00Hmmm, good points Gary. I suppose we (meaning the ...Hmmm, good points Gary. I suppose we (meaning the society of readers) want to hate the villain, not feel sorry for him. We must tend to like it when the character arc is toward greater and greater evil.<br /><br />Which makes me wonder why, in the writing classes I've attended (all associated with conferences), they say "give your villains virtues; don't make them totally bad." It seems that is something the reading public might disagree with. So maybe the experts are giving bad advice in this case.<br /><br />A villain who went through a character arc from good to bad back to good was Darth Vader. Only at the last of the six movies, in the few scenes, did his redeeming qualities show. Of course, that's the movies, not books, but the same "rules" sort of apply.David A. Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16825539283421597579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3501444543696395573.post-61298725232191376302010-12-10T18:39:18.146-06:002010-12-10T18:39:18.146-06:00Kate and I got to discussing this tonight at dinne...Kate and I got to discussing this tonight at dinner. We tried to think of stories with bad guy protagonists and speculate on the virtues they possess:<br /><br />Screwtape - of the eponymous letters<br /><br />MacBeth<br /><br />Hamlet<br /><br />Scrooge - A Christmas Carol<br /><br />Norman Bates - Psycho<br /><br />What do you think their virtues are?Garynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3501444543696395573.post-52319668945023302162010-12-10T16:21:22.821-06:002010-12-10T16:21:22.821-06:00I suppose it comes down to your definition of '...I suppose it comes down to your definition of 'virtue.' HWMNBN (He Who Must Not Be Named) is relentless in his pursuit of power. Is that a virtue? Total devotion to a goal would be virtuous in the case of your baseball phenom struggling against the odds of a successful major league career. In a villain, however, it's more of a perverse obsession. Of course, HWMNBN is also a racist, the most foul of faults today, so that warps his otherwise positive quality.<br /><br />I think that only if you have a subplot of the villain perhaps turning good, can you really endow him with any virtues. If you view character progression as inevitably moving to the ends of the good-bad spectrum, then villains must grow worse with time. The Lord of the Rings plainly shows that any touch of evil will drag the good from light to darkness and ultimately corrupt completely. Villains who merely are plot devices to challenge the protagonist don't need complicating characteristics.<br /><br />Finally, people read fiction for vicarious experience. Most probably sympathize with the protagonist so they want the antagonist to get his deserved punishment. A redeeming virtue in the bad guy would make his doom less justified to the empathetic reader and provoke some psychological discomfort. That's going to translate into not liking the book and not recommending it to others in most cases.Garynoreply@blogger.com